ADHD & the Job Market with Farah Jamil

In this episode, I. interview Farah Jamil, an Ivy League-educated health executive, consultant, and ADHD coach. Farah discusses her journey with a late ADHD diagnosis, her work as a community builder for Muslim ADHDers, and provides tactical advice for neurodivergent individuals on how to survive in today's challenging job market.

Highlights:

  • The FAN Framework: A strategy for being proactive in your career by Focusing on the facts, Asking instead of assuming, and remembering that No one is a mind reader.

  • Working from the Inside Out: The crucial path from self-awareness to self-empowerment and finally to self-advocacy in the workplace.

  • Combating Burnout: Recognizing the "three Ps" (Procrastination, Perfectionism, Paralysis) and the importance of setting healthy boundaries to prevent physical, mental, and emotional burnout.

  • Leveraging Neurodivergent Strengths: How teams with neurodivergent members can foster more innovation and better problem-solving abilities.

Mentioned in this episode:

  • EY (Ernst & Young): Check out their Centers for Neurodivergent Excellence for career ideas and to see how major companies are supporting neurodiversity.

  • ADHD Online: To save $40 on a comprehensive assessment, visit adhdonline.com/adultingwithadhd and use promo code AdultingADHD40.

  • Follow Farah Jamil: Connect with Farah on LinkedIn or visit her website at farahjamil.com.

Please support this show and access the podcast archives by visiting Patreon.com/adultingwithadhd .

Summary

This week I'm joined by Ferra Jamil, an Ivy League-educated executive and ADHD coach, to discuss how to survive and thrive in today's challenging job market as a neurodivergent professional.

Highlights:

  • Ferra's personal journey with a late ADHD diagnosis and how it created pivotal moments in her career.

  • The FAN Framework (Focus, Ask, No one's a mind reader) for being proactive and strategic in your career.

  • How to combat the "three Ps"—procrastination, perfectionism, and paralysis—that lead to burnout.

  • The importance of self-awareness and setting healthy boundaries as the foundation for self-advocacy.

  • How organizations are beginning to recognize the value and strengths of neurodivergent employees.

Mentioned in this episode:

Transcript

Sarah: The adulting with A DHD podcast is not a substitute for medical advice. Please see a medical professional. If you think you have a DH ADHD or have a H ADHD and need additional assistance for podcast archives, please visit patreon.com/adulting with adhd. This is the Adulting with A DHD podcast. Self-Empowerment for people with A DHD. Today I'm excited to have with me Ferra Jamil executive, and a DHD coach and consultant. She's the founder of Muslim, a DH, DERs and her Faith, a ADHDers and executive, a ADHDers. Welcome to the show, Farrah.

Farah: Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. It's great to be here with you.

Sarah: I'm gonna read your bio a little bit so the listeners can get to know you and then I'm gonna kick it over to you. Farrah is an Ivy League educated health executive, an executive coach. DHD coach, consultant, and professional speaker. Farah didn't see anyone like her talking about A DHD, so she hosted the first Muslim. ADHD is Virtual Summit to start the conversation about A DHD, productivity, health, wellness, and faith. Farah is also a professional fellow at the Institute of Coaching at McLean, Harvard Medical School affiliate, and a top 10 presenter. The 2023 coaching.com pre-summit for her webinar on neurodiversity, navigating A DHD in the workplace. I love it. Welcome to the show again.

Farah: Thank you so much.

Sarah: We were talking earlier, work, workplace challenges being just. Always an issue, but it just feels like it just keeps getting more difficult. And so today we're gonna be talking about surviving today's job market as a neurodivergent. First off, can you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, particularly your journey as a community builder for Muslim, A DHD.

Farah: Sure. So I was diagnosed with A DHD as an adult. And that was quite the eyeopener because here I am working away and I would have these struggles such as procrastination, time, blindness sometimes difficulty getting started with tasks or finishing tasks. But honestly I was like, oh, I know. I'm sure there's lots of people who go through this too, but it was getting to the point where it was getting more and more challenging, and I just couldn't figure out why. So when I got my diagnosis, it really gave me that pivotal point in my life where I had to pause and reflect. It's okay, now I know that I have a DH, D, and yay. It explains a lot. But then I had to really reflect on all the things that I had gone through, and I went through those, that seven stages of grief where, you're bargaining and then you're like trying to make sense of it, and then you're probably going through some, anger and other emotions, and then you're trying to settle back down again. So it was quite challenging in that respect, but it was also very pivotal because I finally was able to see, ah, this explains why during my career I had a lot of great ups and a lot of great successes, and I could see how my A DHD really helped with that. But unbeknownst to me, I was having. A lot of these downs as well, and it was just so frustrating not to know. And in the workplace, there were very few people of anyone who looked like me, as a woman of color wearing a hijab. So I was very visibly Muslim and there were no other leaders who looked like me. I had, a team of people reporting to me. I was reporting to senior leaders, all the fun stuff. As an executive myself, I didn't see a lot of people who look like me. And now knowing that I have a DHD, I didn't see a lot of people who look like me talking about A DHD, especially in the workplace and as an executive. And so that led to my next pivotal moment in my life before my a d ADHD diagnosis. I actually trained as an executive coach and it was such a privilege because I got to work not only as a health executive, but also as an executive coach in-house. And so I got to do one-on-one coaching and group coaching with leaders across my organization, which was fantastic. Then when I got my A DHD diagnosis, I heard that there was such a thing as a DHD coaching and I was like, oh, I know the power of executive coaching. I see it when I get to coach, these great leaders in my organization. Let me take a look at this. And in typical A DHD fashion, I'm like, I'm gonna train as an a d, ADHD coach too. That was amazing because I really got to learn so much more about the brain and about, procrastination, time blindness, all the things that I had struggled with before my diagnosis and knowing about it. So now I call myself being bilingual in executive and A DHD, and I get to coach people and consult with people from around the world, whether they're executives looking to improve their leadership skills, whether there are those who want to better navigate their A DHD and better understand their A DHD, or for those who overlap executives who have A DHD and wanting to have a coach or a consultant who understands what that means because being a woman of color. Being a leader and having a DHD being neurodivergent, those, that's quite the intersectionality. So it's been quite the journey.

Sarah: Yeah. In your experience, what strengths do Neurodivergence bring to today's job market? And how can they leverage that?

Farah: Research has actually been showing that there are quite a few advantages. So Harvard Business Review has several articles on this, how they are seeing that. Teams that have a mixture of neurotypical and neurodivergent staff, they tend to do better at problem solving. Because you've got people who have different ways at looking at a problem, and so they're being more effective and efficient in problem solving. And for me, I think perhaps that has to do with less. Group think because when you've got people who have different ways of looking at things, you are going to have far more innovation. You're going to have people who can look at a problem and tackle it in a way that really meets and exceeds the needs of the organization. And research is showing this more and more. We've also got organizations who even have dedicated supports and maybe even programs who are neurodivergent. So for example, ey, Ernest and Young a huge company. They actually have centers for neurodivergent excellence.

Sarah: Wow.

Farah: Yeah. And so for anyone who is maybe thinking, they're looking for an employer or just maybe some more ideas on what would be a good career fit for them, check out ey centers for Neurodivergent. I believe it's neurodivergent or neurodiverse excellence. And it's an opportunity that more and more organizations are seeing, they're seeing that. It may not be in their best interest to do things the way they've always done it, where they expect everyone to conform. Because if you're truly looking for innovation, then why are you asking everyone to conform in the exact same way? Instead, they're now recognizing that when they're opening themselves up to. Differences in how people think, process, information, et cetera. They are really now leveraging the best of people instead of forcing them to be or do things in a certain way. So it's really hard. Heartening for me to see that you've got these great organizations and you've got research that is proving to people and organizations of the value of having staff who are neurodivergent.

Sarah: Yeah, that sounds like such a good resource. I can't wait to go check it out. It's nice to see that they're starting to collect data on that because that definitely rings true. In my experience as well. That's, that is so good to hear. I didn't realize that. I am happy to send you some links so that you can share it with your listeners.

Sarah: Yeah, that would be great. If you're listening to this show, you get how stress and overwhelmed can wreak havoc on your life, and how sometimes the issue runs deeper than that. That's where A DHD online comes in. They offer a thorough, clinically backed assessment that not only checks for A DHD. But also screens for anxiety, depression, and more. To save $40 and to get on the path to relief, now visit a H ADHD online slash adulting with a HD and use promo code adulting A DH ADHD 40. We had talked about one, one of the common pitfalls neuro neurodivergence can run into is being too passive in their careers. Can you speak to that a little bit and talk about how you're trying to get your clients to have a more strategic stance?

Farah: Absolutely. And this was one of the things when I had paused and reflected. After my diagnosis, I actually could not believe how passive I was in my own career. Now that may sound odd. It's Farah, you're an Ivy League graduate, you're a health executive, you're doing some really good work. What do you mean that you've been passive in your own career? It doesn't sound like it. And the thing is. I was passive in the sense where. I think I allowed other people to tell me what I could and couldn't do. It's oh, you should probably just do this, or you should probably go into this area or probably do that. I'm like, okay, sure. Sounds interesting enough. So in some ways I did luck out where I was able to, even though I was passive, I was able to go into areas that did genuinely interest me. However, I fell into that trap that I hear a lot from other. People, executives, leaders, anyone who's like wanting to make some, strides in their career. And I fell into that trap of if people just see me working hard, that should be enough for them to know that I want a promotion. And yet I was seeing other people who maybe didn't have as much experience as me getting promoted over me, and I'm like, wait a minute. What's going on here? Why are they getting promoted over me? And it was simply because they were really good at being proactive and being very clear. As to their goals. So they would tell people, they would tell the right people that, I'm looking to get promoted, or I'm looking like this is my plan for my career. This is what are the skills that I've developed and these are the skills I like to further develop. What do I need to do to get there? And so they did a great job of advocating for themselves. And before they could do that though, they had to be clear. So they were clear on their goals. They were able to advocate for themselves and then they were able to get there because guess what? No one's a mind reader. Just because someone sees you working hard, they may think, oh, look, she's enjoying that work, so she's probably happy where she is. If you don't say it, then no one's gonna know it. So that was a huge aha moment for me. It's oh my goodness, I can't believe I did that to myself. How is it that I just assumed that people would know what I wanted? Because I guess I thought that they were mind readers. And so this is where I actually developed the fan framework. FAN. And this is how you create fans in the workplace. And this is something that I've taught to many of my clients be for this very reason. So in Fan F is focused on the facts. What are the facts of the situation and what is it that you really want? What is it that you really need? But you have to be clear. What are those facts? And if you're not clear about something, then we move on to a. Ask, don't assume because especially as an a, ADHD or I am really good at making assumptions and building a whole narrative that may not have much fact attached to it. It's just, it could just be based on my own assumptions and emotions at the time. So instead we ask, we don't assume. And then n in fan is, no one's a mind reader. Go figure. And I always say to people, unless you're like me, who's a fan of Star Trek as, as far as we know, we don't have any beta voids who can read minds. And so if you're not a beta void, who can read minds? And if you don't work with a beta OID who can read minds, then guess what? No one's a mind reader. You have to tell people. What you want and need. So with that fan framework, this is how you can be more proactive and less passive in the workplace.

Sarah: I really love that and it makes me think of my own experience and. I remember when I finally, I identified this issue of being passive. It was that, oh I can be proactive. Like it's not, I wasn't even aware that was an option. That's how it wasn't even on the table. And it's, I love that your work is encouraging people to bring that to the table. That is so cool.

Farah: Absolutely. Whether you're neurotypical or neurodivergent. At the end of the day, we're all human. We want to find the right structures and supports to help us be our best. And so I always say to my clients, whether they are executive, my executive clients, or my A DHD clients or both, I always say to them, we have to work from the inside out. You have to start with self-awareness. What do you want to need? Because if you don't know, no one else is gonna know. So once you have that self-awareness, then that could lead to self-empowerment because now that you have clarity, you are empowered to better understand where you wanna go from here, and then that leads to self-advocacy because then you are able to advocate for yourself. And that is, I think, crucial for anyone. And I say to my clients. At the end of the day, no one's gonna care more about your career than you. Doesn't matter how many mentors you have, or how much of a loving family or friends that you have, that's great, that's wonderful. But at the end of the day, no one's gonna care more about your career than you. So if you don't have that self-awareness, then it's gonna be very difficult for you to be empowered and to advocate for yourself. So start from the inside out.

Sarah: That is some hard one wisdom. I can tell.

Farah: Oh yes. I've earned it too. And it is so true. And I love it. Let's talk about burnout for a minute. So what strategies have you found to be helpful these days for you or your clients?

Farah: So for those who have a DHD, something that. We have as a challenge is overwhelm, and this can be. Because of what I call the three Ps, procrastination, perfectionism, and paralysis. So there are times when we procrastinate on something for whatever reason, maybe it's boring or maybe we're just, not sure how to go about doing it. And then that can lead to perfectionism. It's if I'm gonna do the thing, then it has to be done perfectly. And that takes a lot of energy. And because of now that energy and now we've got this overwhelm going, we're paralyzed. We've got that paralysis, whether it's analysis paralysis or decision paralysis. So those three Ps can lead to so much mental, physical, emotional. Even spiritual overwhelm. You don't have to necessarily be religious or spiritual even if you have any kind of philosophy for yourself. If you live your life by a certain philosophy, it can be exhausting. When you are overwhelmed, when you don't have that clear direction or it could be that you're doing something, but it's not the most efficient or effective way of doing it, so you're exhausting yourself that way, or you're in a very toxic environment. There could be all sorts of reasons that can lead to burnout. And for someone who has a DHD, it can be all the above. One of the above, two of the above, it doesn't matter. But when you have that overwhelm, that can lead to burnout faster, it can even be stronger. It's gonna be different for each of us. 'cause we all have different experiences. We all have different lived experiences. We all have different work experiences, again, it really goes down. It really gets down to that self-awareness because each of us experience our limits in different ways. So my burnout may look different from yours and your and my burnouts may look different from someone else. So we need to always start with the inside out. What is it that you need so that you don't burn out? And those typically I call, and I think many of us call it healthy boundaries. When we don't have those clear and healthy boundaries, we're going to get burned out because when we don't know what our boundaries are, then others don't know our boundaries. So they're gonna keep encroaching on our boundaries and we're gonna keep letting them. And when that happens, you get burned out. And again, it can be physical, mental, emotional, spiritual burnout. So we gotta have that self-awareness and we need to be clear for ourselves first about what is it that make up our healthy boundaries? Because those healthy boundaries are there for a reason so that we can be healthy, so that we can be our best selves and that we can help others. And I know it's a cliche, but I love this cliche, and I use this with all of my clients. It's the same thing that they talk about on airplanes, about the oxygen mask. What do they always say, Sarah? That when you're on a plane and if the oxygen mask comes down, what are the instructions that we're given?

Sarah: You gotta put on your mask first.

Farah: Yes. It doesn't say put the mask on to the person next to you, even if it's your loved one. No, they specifically say you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. And the reason for that is if you were to put the mask on everyone else around you first, no matter how much you love them, or even perfect strangers, because you're you wanna be a good person, you wanna be a good Samaritan, whatever the case may be. Guess what's gonna happen? You're going to suffocate and you're not gonna be able to help anybody, including yourself. But when we have that healthy boundary, when we know that we need to put that oxygen mask on ourselves first, then we can help everybody because we're helping ourselves first. We're, and it's not selfish. Self-care is not selfish. Part of that self-care is having those healthy boundaries so that we can be our best selves and bring our best selves to the world.

Sarah: So glad these conversations are happening because it just seems like this should be a required curriculum moving forward. Thank you so much. That would be great for everybody. Yes. I was furiously taking notes while you were talking. This is so tactical and helpful. Where can listeners follow your work?

Farah: Oh, great question. So I am on LinkedIn. There's quite a few photo Jamil, but if you see the one where it says that, I'm an executive coach and an A DHD coach and a consultant they should be able to find me there. My first name is F as in flower, a RAH, last name Jamil, J-A-M-I-L. So I'm on LinkedIn. Always love to connect with others, and I also have my website farahjamil.com. They can find me there as well.

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