ADHD & Headaches with Dr. Sarah Cheyette
In this episode, Dr. Sarah Cheyette, a pediatric neurologist, explores the intricate connections between ADHD, headaches, and hormones, especially in women, and offers practical strategies for managing these overlapping conditions. Through insightful discussion, Dr. Cheyette emphasizes the hidden nature of these issues and the potential relief in managing one condition to alleviate another.
Highlights:
Dr. Cheyette reveals that addressing ADHD can often mitigate severe headache symptoms, illustrating the interdependence of these conditions.
Hormonal changes, particularly during menstrual cycles, can intensify both headaches and ADHD-related difficulties, impacting concentration and daily functionality.
Practical strategies for managing ADHD and migraine challenges include maintaining a symptom diary to improve communication with healthcare providers.
Summary
This episode of the podcast features Dr. Cheyette, who delves into the complex relationships between ADHD, headaches, and hormones. Dr. Cheyette, a seasoned pediatric neurologist, shares her groundbreaking observation that treating ADHD can sometimes alleviate severe headaches, uncovering a significant link between these conditions. The conversation highlights how hormonal fluctuations, especially during menstruation, can exacerbate both headaches and ADHD symptoms, affecting concentration and overall daily performance.
Dr. Cheyette and the host discuss the challenges of navigating such complex conditions, emphasizing the importance of a holistic approach to care. Listeners are encouraged to maintain a simple symptom diary to enhance communication with healthcare providers, ensuring a more comprehensive understanding of their unique conditions. This approach underscores the often-hidden nature of ADHD and migraines, and how managing one can potentially alleviate the other, providing a path to relief for those affected by both.
The episode concludes with a heartfelt appeal for listener participation in an audience survey, aimed at improving the podcast experience and aligning content with audience interests. The host expresses gratitude for the community's support and stresses the importance of feedback in shaping future content and attracting suitable partners. Through this engagement, the podcast aims to continue growing and providing valuable insights to its listeners.
Transcript
00:00 - Speaker 1 (None)
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00:57 - Sarah (Host)
Today. I'm very happy to have with me today Dr Sarah Chayette. She is a pediatric neurologist and author based out of the San Francisco Bay Area. Hi, sarah, welcome to the show.
01:09 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
Hi Sarah yourself, and thank you so much for having me there. It's going to be fun to talk.
01:16 - Sarah (Host)
I was very excited to see you on the roster of the ADHD Women's Palooza and I watched your presentation with great interest, and so that's where this interview comes in is just, I wanted to make sure our listeners could hear you talk about hormones and headaches and ADHD. First, what is the relationship between ADHD and headaches? I know I get them all the time. That's all I know.
01:40 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
It's funny you ask because if you look it up there's really nothing there, except maybe something I've written but I got into. People are like, wait a sec, you're a neurologist, don't usually treat ADHD. But that's actually how I got into. Treating ADHD is through headaches. I was having headache patients who were having such horrible headaches and such long and never ending and just awful headaches, and it turned out the reason for some of their headaches like some people's headaches are caused by this. But these people were under a tremendous amount of stress and the ADHD wasn't known. You know stress and the ADHD wasn't known. You know, nobody really thought about ADHD. And it turned out that by treating the ADHD, I wound up treating their headaches. So I was like, oh, this is pretty darn cool.
02:35 - Sarah (Host)
That's very cool. I've had a similar experience, not with headaches, but with anxiety. I had a doctor treat the ADHD and that helped with the, the anxiety. It's funny how that works. So what do hormones have to do with it?
02:48 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
because I know there's a relationship there as well with women and yeah, so hormones so, focusing specifically on women here, hormones and you know, take this from someone who's been pregnant four times and whatever hormones are powerful, they affect your brain. I remember one day my husband, who's a psychiatrist, went to see a talk on, you know, how hormones affect your brain cells, and he came home and he's oh my God, honey, I totally understand. Now he's just like it's kind of amazing. And what I can say is that hormones relate to headaches. A lot of people's headaches are hormone driven. For example, there are some people whose headaches are most likely to happen during their period and that's not everyone, but that's not uncommon but along with that, can have many effects on ADHD. So when you have your headaches, aren't you going to have a harder time concentrating? Stress, pain, and so stress, yes.
03:59
So when people's hormones are fluctuating around the time of their period, for example, yeah, along with that they also have more anxiety and stress, and just it can get a little, yeah, and when you're feeling well, that's not when you're going to be at your best for doing whatever it is you're doing your laundry, your chemistry, homework, your whatever it is. Plus, sleep can be an issue as well. Again, the pain of the headaches can affect sleep. The stress of the anxiety, depression you know, fill in your negative emotion here type of thing can be an issue, and the medicines for the headaches can also affect your concentration. So there's a lot of reasons why these things can also affect your concentration. So there's a lot of reasons why these things can go hand in hand. I don't know about you, but sometimes medicines for headaches can make you sleepy or dizzy. Just want to check out for a little bit.
04:58 - Sarah (Host)
That's a really interesting piece. I hadn't considered no-transcript. I guess it doesn't really matter what's causing it, but it's like how do you just make it go away? So this is such a basic question. But say, I have a headache, what's my first step?
05:20 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
What do I do? So again, we're talking about somebody who knows what their headaches are from. A migraine means something ticks off your brain. Your brain has a nest of cells in it that then send out pain signals to the nerves that go out to your head, and that's where the pain of the migraine comes from. Some people will have abnormal signals to the visual part of their brain and that's where some people will see weird things spots or squiggles or heat waves or other things. Other people, those little nests of cells will then go and set off the vomiting center. Some people can't think straight as part of their migraines.
06:01
When you have a migraine, they've done studies on people in the middle of their migraine and for some people they will just see the electrical activity of the brain shut down. It's just wild, and so that's why pieces of your brain aren't working so well. There's been a couple of times at least where, for example, on-air newscasters had what looked like a stroke because they couldn't talk and maybe had some weakness, and it turned out it was a migraine. That part of their brain wasn't working, so where?
06:39
am I going with this? That's a good question, but we were talking about.
06:42
There's two parts of headaches, one is trying to figure out how to get set off in the first place, and that's where it's like managing the adhd. It could be a part of it. Then there's a question of what do you do once it's set off to get yourself back to normal, and for most people that is medication. Some people would take a walk or have a drink or other things, but that would be a drink of water May I be clear, adulting with ADHD but not an adult beverage, although I'm sure there are people who go that route too. It's not recommended.
07:19
The issue really is a medication for most people, and for some people that medicine might be Tylenol or ibuprofen. Early seems like the best idea for people because the medicines work the best. So if you can kind of cotton to when you're at most likely to have the headache, if you can understand that, you might be more likely to take your medicine at that time, and there's a lot of fantastic medicines for migraines out. The last few years have seen a new treatment. 10 years or a little more. Before that there was another revolution. It should be doable to get rid of the virus.
07:56 - Sarah (Host)
Let's just know it's doable, doable.
07:59 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
Talk to your doctor, because all these things are prescription medicines, but they're available and they are just amazing what scientists have figured out for this. Yay, scientists.
08:11 - Sarah (Host)
I continue to be blown away. Some of the stuff they've come up with. It's incredible.
08:16 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
It's incredible and of course we have a long way to go, both for ADHD and for headaches, but we don't understand the brain. So when we don't understand the brain, it's hard to do things for it.
08:29 - Speaker 1 (None)
Something that's brought me comfort is just knowing that there is affordable private online therapy available anytime and anywhere through BetterHelp, and I just found it to be way more convenient and way more in line with how I prefer to communicate. There's ways to communicate through email, through chat, through phone whatever is easier for you, and listeners of the Adulting with ADHD podcast podcast can save 10 off their first month today if they sign up to take advantage of this deal. Go to betterhelpcom slash adhd adulting.
09:03 - Sarah (Host)
That is betterhelpcom slash adhd adulting and I know for me, like when I take my adhd meds and forget to eat. That's usually when I my headache sets. It's such a basic thing.
09:16 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
But yeah, we talked a little bit about the headache medicines making ADHD worse because of sleepiness and stuff. But it goes the other way. Some people have headaches directly from their medicines for ADHD. So for some reason they take their Adderall, Ritalin, Focalin, whatever it is, Stratera, and then they have a headache and even eating doesn't seem to fix that. So these medicines can cause headaches directly. But, like you, sometimes the headaches can be indirect in that medicine caused lack of eating or drinking or both, and then because of that you have the headache, in which case you'll want to set your alarm to eat or drink, even if you're not hungry, because if your medicine is otherwise working well, Absolutely.
10:12 - Sarah (Host)
But let's say I take this advice and I have chronic headaches and I know there's medicine out there. Would I go to my family doctor or am I looking for a specialist?
10:22 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
What's my next? I would say that it may depend on the different area you live in across the country, but most people would start with their primary care doctor, their family doctor, their internist, whoever it is. Most of them are very adept at treating migraines on an as-needed basis. So that's the turning it off once it starts basis. However, if you are having frequent headaches, you may want to go see a neurologist or get a referral to a neurologist as needed, because that's where prevention comes in for migraines. So it'd be nice to not have so many headaches and then not have to take so much medicine for the headaches. I would say probably, at least from what I can tell, the primary care doctors will refer to neurologists when the prevention stuff is needed.
11:19 - Sarah (Host)
Gotcha Okay. So I want to thank you again for being on the show and I wanted to ask you what you're up to these days and where people can keep up with your work.
11:29 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
Oh, sure, I have a website and that's basically my name. Sure, I have a website and that's basically my name. So I'll spell it for you, because it's not obvious for most people how to spell my name, but it is S-A-R-A-H-L-E, c-h-e-y-e-t-t-e dot com. And I have several books out on ADHD. One which is called ADHD and the Focused Mind is written with my kid's karate teacher, actually. Yeah, we try to take the holistic view towards it. And oh, my husband, the psychiatrist, is on there too.
12:05
But, yeah, the point is that it uses the athletic mindset, so it uses techniques borrowed from athletes that even if you're not an athlete, you can develop the mindset of an athlete to maximize your ability to deal with ADHD. So that's one. There's winningning with ADHD, which is for teens. It was written by somebody who was I think she was 20, 21 when she was writing it and she got me along as co-author. And my third one is a ADHD in five minutes or less with lots of pictures. So all of those are on Amazon or wherever you get your books. But yeah, tune in at some point. I love being on this show because it's really fun to simplify things so that people can understand what's going on with their own bodies.
13:03 - Sarah (Host)
Yeah, it's always a breath of fresh air. When I come across a doctor who gets it, I feel like, oh, you get it. And I feel like a lot of these episodes turn into. I just finding things out the hard way, because it's not common knowledge. You take for granted that you assume people would know. And I know hormones is one of those that we're learning. We don't know as much about our bodies as we thought we did. Yeah, yeah, and you know hormones is one of those that we're learning. We don't know as much about our bodies as we thought we did. Yeah, yeah.
13:29 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
And you know these are all common things and so of course they can all overlap. They really do seem to go hand in hand in lots of people in lack of sleep, adhd, negative emotions, and then of course the hormones are part of that for some people. Other people are pretty steady, hormones do not cause these things, but they still have these issues. And it's you go to one doctor for one thing and you go to the other doctor for the other thing and to find the one who deals with both of them that can be a bit tricky. So you might talk to your primary care or your neurologist about your migraines and not even think about the ADHD part which may be treated by a psychiatrist, and the psychiatrist doesn't want to deal with the headache part of it. So it can be really hard to sometimes find a way to tie everything together. But you're all one person.
14:28 - Sarah (Host)
Absolutely. I'm learning that the hard way. I think I grew up thinking you go to a doctor and they have all the answers and they know everything, and now that I actually have a complex condition and perimenopause and everything, it's oh, it's not all black and white. There's all these layers and shades of gray, oh my God. And why does all these like layers and shades of gray?
14:45 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
Oh my God, it's tough and just you know from the doctor's perspective. Most things that we know about you are through you. So, like ADHD, you don't get like a thing on your forehead that says I have ADHD and you don't wear a t-shirt saying by the way.
15:00
I've got migraines too, and some people overemphasize things. Some people under you know what I'm trying to say, but you know that's exactly it. Not underestimate. People will shape things differently. Every doctor has their own personal history and their own personal worldview as well, and many doctors are very constrained by time and and other things, so it can take a while to dive deep, but just try to be persistent and try to. You know, maybe make a list of what you want to say before you go into the doctor and oftentimes when you're trying to figure out if one thing is related to the other.
15:40
Keeping a diary or journal, which doesn't have to be complicated hey, adhd people, it is hard to keep. I find it hard to keep a journal myself of anything, but try to keep it simple Piece of paper with jotted notes is fine. You don't have to get the latest app for journals. It doesn't have to be all inclusive, but just getting an idea as what is going on at the same time will help your doctor make sense of your symptoms, because if you don't know they're going to be like I don't live with you. Try to bring something to the discussion.
16:17 - Sarah (Host)
Yeah, awesome, really good advice, sarah. That's really all I have. Did you have anything else you wanted to throw in there?
16:24 - Dr. Cheyette (Host)
I can talk about this for hours, but the most important thing is that these are both hidden things, both migraines and ADHD. Like I said, there's no. I guess there could be, but most people don't tattoo ADHD on their forehead, or migraines or anything else. So just know that what's obvious to you may not be obvious to other people either, and so both conditions can worsen each other, and controlling one might help the other a little bit, and so it's just something to think about for people who are suffering from both things.
16:58 - Sarah (Host)
Awesome. Thank you, Sarah, Thanks for having me. Hey guys.
17:02 - Speaker 1 (None)
I'm here to ask a little favor. So, in order to grow the podcast even more, it's come to my attention that I should probably survey you guys to get a better idea of who's actually listening and what you guys want and what you don't want. Help me immensely to have this information, not just for myself, as I'm creating content, but for any potential partners who may want to help grow the show. I would like to find people who are exactly right for you guys. Thank you very much and until next time, happy adulting.
