Reframing Clutter with Star Hansen
In this episode, I delve into the world of clutter with Star Hansen, renowned clutter whisperer and certified professional organizer. Star shares her two decades of experience helping people navigate their clutter to unlock their potential and embrace their true selves, especially those navigating life with ADHD.
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Summary
In this episode of the "Adulting with ADHD" podcast, host Sarah S. interviews Star Hansen, a certified professional organizer and "clutter whisperer." The conversation explores the deep connection between clutter and mental health, with a special focus on the unique challenges faced by people with ADHD. Star shares her philosophy that recurring clutter is often serving a hidden purpose and emphasizes the importance of self-acceptance and individualized systems over one-size-fits-all organizing advice. She offers practical strategies for getting started, such as using urgency, novelty, and bite-sized tasks to motivate action, and highlights the value of turning "no" into direction for finding what truly works. The episode also features real-life examples of transformation and encourages listeners to view clutter as a friend and an opportunity for personal growth.
In this episode
"There's nothing wrong with you. Let's discover how your brain is going to work in an optimal state that works for you. And then let's find the places where you need a little bit more support because to me that's all that is really required."
Introduction to Star Hansen and her approach to organizing
The connection between clutter, mental health, and ADHD
Why recurring clutter is often serving a hidden purpose
The importance of self-acceptance and rejecting shame-based organizing standards
Practical strategies for ADHD: urgency, novelty, bite-sized projects, and body doubling
The value of using "no" as a guide to find personalized solutions
Real-life examples of transformation through organizing
Viewing clutter and chaos as invitations for growth and self-discovery
Information on how listeners can access Star's free resources and book
Transcript
[Sarah S.]
Today I'm very excited to have with me Star Hansen. Star is a certified professional organizer and clutter whisperer. Welcome to the show, Star.
[Star Hansen]
Oh, I'm so happy to be here with you today, Sarah. I'm really excited about our conversation.
[Sarah S.]
Me too. Do you want to start by telling the listeners a little bit about you?
[Star Hansen]
Absolutely. As you said, my name is Star Hansen. I'm a certified professional organizer and clutter whisperer, and I help you get to the bottom of why your clutter keeps coming back and won't stay gone, no matter how many times you address it. This is a problem I've seen in my career over the last 20 years, just noticing that I'm working with some of the smartest, most intelligent, powerful, creative people I've ever met, and they struggle with clutter. And I saw really quickly how there's something bigger going on because you are so competent and capable of creating systems and situations in your life that are so empowered, but why is organization, like home organization, productivity, feeling so strained? And that's what I help people address.
[Sarah S.]
In your TEDx talk and through your work, you've often discussed the deep connection between clutter and one's mental state. So, um, how do you approach helping individuals with ADHD navigating their clutter and unlocking their potential?
[Star Hansen]
I think that people who have ADHD have just they have just been living a life. They've been dealing with a battle that few people understand unless you've been walking that path because for a lot of people, especially a lot of women, they get diagnosed later in life. And so that means you've got decades of feeling like you weren't measuring up, that you just were watching everyone around you and thinking, wait, why are they doing it so easily and I'm struggling with this or what's going on behind the scenes or why do I have this superpower, but this feels like a total deficit? What's going on? And there's a lot of overcompensation, there's a lot of burnout. There's just a lot of stress. And so one of the first things I like to do is just say that there's nothing wrong with you. Let's just normalize that clutter exists in this world. We live in a time and on a planet where stuff is a big commodity and that we are dealing with a lot of stuff more than anyone has ever experienced in any other time in society history. So we are dealing with something that we don't necessarily, even for a neurotypical people, we don't even necessarily have the right systems for that. So adding on the fact that you are discovering how your brain works, let's just celebrate that for a minute. And so what happens is if we go in and we say, oh, I'm disorganized, I really have issues with out of sight, out of mind and time doesn't exist to me and because of my ADHD, if we just assume that we are already at a deficit because of how our brains are wired, we spend our time beating ourselves up. So what I like to do is just start to normalize, hey, there's nothing wrong with you. Let's discover how your brain is going to work in an optimal state that works for you. And then let's find the places where you need a little bit more support because to me that's all that is really required is how do we get you the support for the areas that feel challenging to you and celebrate and expand the things that really work for you. And unfortunately, a lot of the organizing wisdom out there, I'd say 70 to 80% is not built for the ADHD brain. And so we have to stop holding ourselves up to those standards because there are systems that will work for you. It may just not be the number one bestseller that's out there right now.
[Sarah S.]
I love hearing you say that. And your book, it tackles the question a lot of us face, like, why am I still not organized? A lot of us have tried the perfect journal, the perfect system, and, um, we just never can find the right thing. Can you share a key insight or strategy from that book that addresses this kind of stuff? Um, having an ADHD challenge?
[Star Hansen]
Absolutely. So I am just going to say, look for the gift. My personal belief is that if you have recurring clutter, meaning clutter that keeps coming up over and over again in the same places, normally a lot of the same stuff, that clutter is doing something for you. It's useful in some way and that you are using it to get a need met. And so what we want to do is we want to start to look at, okay, what are the reasons that this clutter may be helpful to me? And a few examples of that are we might use it for creativity. If you're a very creative person, holding on to things can feel very inspiring because it could be your next big project or it could be the solution that finally helps you go to sleep at a reasonable hour or tackle this project at work. And so a lot of times it's indicative of creativity. It can also be protection. If you have stuff around you, maybe there's some clutter at the house, maybe you don't feel like people can come over and that might actually feel good to you. And so what I help people to do is to really start to explore how is your clutter serving you? How are you using it? And the book will unpack that and go into what you do with that information once you know it, once you understand how it's helping you.
[Sarah S.]
What are the first steps you recommend for someone who like really wants to tackle this and start their journey towards better decluttering and organizing?
[Star Hansen]
If someone wants to get started getting organized, especially my lovely ADHD friends, we have to remember what motivates us. Organizing is not inherently motivational. Like most people are not like, oh, I can I know I am a very unique exception to that, but most people are not like, I want to do this on the weekends. And so we have to find what works for us. So remembering that people with ADHD are highly motivated by a challenge, by novelty, something that truly interests them, urgency, passion. So knowing that we want to like trick our brains a little bit or put us into hyperdrive. So little things that I can say is, can we make a game of it? Can you try to awaken that need for urgency? Okay, what can I get done in five minutes? What can I get done in an hour? And it's really tricky because we need to awaken that urgency and that excitement while also doing small, manageable things that we can complete. People who have ADHD, generally speaking, don't have a lot of experience with completion. They have they start a lot of things, they get really excited. They're like, oh, I can't wait to do this. And then halfway through they're like, I think I got what I needed. I'll go to something else that's more exciting now. And so finding ways that you can work on small, very small, bite-sized projects that you can start and finish can be so helpful. I have a an online community and we do group organizing sessions, like body doubling sessions. And this past weekend, we just did 20-minute bursts. We it was like it was literally like like a tiny little sprint. So for several hours, I would just set a timer, 20 minutes, boom, 20 minutes, boom, 20 minutes, boom. And it was so powerful because again, it got that interest up, it got you excited and moving. It put a lot of people into a state of flow and that's what we want is we want to awaken that so that then you're moving into a state of flow. By the end of that session, we were organizing for an hour at a time because people had already gotten out of that distractive state and gotten into a state of flow where they were really clicked in. And so finding things like that that can really awaken again, your superpowers and put you into a state of action....
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[Sarah S.]
Awesome. And I just wanted to jump in here real quick and say that almost all of these things I have tried and they actually do work. It's very exciting.
[Star Hansen]
Yes, I'm so glad. I thought you were going to say and they don't work. Tell me more and I'd be like, okay, let's do this. Tell me what's not working. Yeah. I'm like, so I am this like, I have a mad scientist inside of me that if something doesn't work because when I started doing this, it was 20 years ago and we didn't have the insight on ADHD or a lot of neurodivergence that we do today. And I'm not sure what it is about me as a person, but I'm like the typical yes and. So many people that I would work with, I would say, what about this? , that's not going to work for me. Okay, what about this? , that's not going to work for me. And I would just use all those nos to piece together the direction that was a yes because your no is important to me. I don't want anyone yes, mamming me and saying it's going to work when it's absolutely not working for you. We have to use the nos in our life to start to put together our yeses. And it's one of the ways again that when you've had ADHD, there's a lot of overcompensating and not talking about it, masking, feeling like we can't discuss it if it's not working for us, that there's something wrong. And I just want to validate to you and your listeners, your no is one of the most powerful things because it gives you direction towards your yes. That might be a closed door, but then we're pivoting to see where the open door is because there is always an open door. There's always a solution for you.
[Sarah S.]
That is music to my ears and I I love hearing I love hearing people talk um like this. And it's interesting because um you know, when I when I'm online and listening to podcasts and on TikTok, I feel the validation. And then I go out into the real world and it's not always there. And so it's wonderful to just hear this sort of reinforcement. So thank you for that.
[Star Hansen]
Oh, thank you for letting me share it. It's if I can help even one person remember the truth, which is that there's nothing wrong with them, I am very satisfied in my day. So that's I it breaks my heart because some of the clients that I've worked with who have ADHD are absolutely some of the most brilliant, beautiful, powerful, insightful, magical beings I've ever known. And the fact that you all often walk around with a an Eor type cloud hanging over you feeling like there's something wrong with you breaks my heart because there is nothing wrong with you. I wish I had one 100th of your creativity and your power and your ability. It's just it's so special. So it it's an honor to even remind you in a small way of what's true.
[Sarah S.]
That is so cool. And it also uh brings me to the next question I have. So when you are dealing with people with ADHD, how are you customizing the strategies or are these strategies that all your um clients are using?
[Star Hansen]
Oh God, no. Oh no. No one gets the same strategies. It's okay, so look, let me just be real. I've done over 30 TV shows. I've been doing this for a hot minute. If you're reading a book about it, watching a show about it, reading a a sound bite about it, right? That has been curated to sell. So let's just name that first. So these things that are general, I look at things that I said 20 years ago and I'm like, . I just it hurt it's factor times 100. I'm like, why did I say that? And I said it because I needed a sound bite because that's what sells and that's what is easy to put out there and it wasn't personal. It was just a general idea to hope that you feel better. And what I want you to do when you're working on your organization and when I'm talking about organization, I don't simply mean getting your stuff organized and making your space look better. What I mean is also learning who you are. I want I want you to be in a like a science experiment lab when you're organizing and you are the experiment because the systems, the physical objects around you, they are indicative of what's happening inside of you. So they are an expression of your inner truth.... And so a lot of people read into that and think, oh, that means there's something wrong with me. Absolutely not. This is just amazing data points to help you understand who you are, what you need, what works for you. For example, if I come into your house and you have a giant pile of paper on your kitchen counter and you're apologizing for this paper and you're saying I should put it in the office, but I just get so busy and blah, blah, blah. I'm going to say there's something about that pile of paper on the counter that's working for you. I'm not going to say, oh, let's cut that off and shove it in the back of the house because experience has shown that you're not going to walk three minutes to the back of the house to put the mail in the office. It's not working for you. So as a science experiment, again, leaning into that yes and, okay, this is here. Something about this is working for me. Something I'm liking something. Okay, let's explore what that is. What if we doubled down? What if we committed to this and then took it to the next level? Most people, their organizational systems are already started. I don't come in with a book of systems and say, choose one of 50 options. I look at what you're already doing and I say, let's build on that because most people I work with have already started the system that works for them. They just stopped before it was finished because they either looked around the rest of the planet and was like, oh, nobody else is doing it like this or they didn't have the timer or bandwidth to finish it. But that's what I do. I just help you complete what you've already started because you have that insight inside of you already.
[Sarah S.]
I love that. You mentioned using chaos to unlock one's greatest potential. Can you share an example of how someone with ADHD transformed their space or turned their habits into strengths?
[Star Hansen]
I had a client that I was working with and she was so smart. And she would just she worked this really busy job, like 70 hours a week, just insane. And then she'd come home and her house was in total chaos, which was fascinating because she was never home. But when she was home, she was surrounding herself with things that brought her joy. So she had all of these creative endeavors and crafts and fitness stuff and it just brought her so much joy, like plants everywhere. And through the process of getting organized and the process of organizing is really about meeting yourself. It's partly about taking up space, unapologetically saying this is who I am and taking up space because if we can't do that in the small little space of this earth that's our home, where can we do that? And the other part is just like really meeting ourselves. Who am I? What do I want? So when I walked into that house and I'm seeing all these crafts and then she goes to work and does this very pragmatic financial job, I'm like, there's a mismatch here. Like she's overflowing at home because that part of her is not being met. She's spent so focused on making money and having this career and making her degree work for her and making that education work for her and she never stopped to say, am I happy? Does this work for me? And so it was so beautiful because through the process of organization, she really had to meet that monster and say, that kind of financial security isn't bringing me the joy that I want. What I want is to live in this other state, in this very specific type of terrain, doing these other things. And within three years, she had left her job and went and started like three independent businesses in a beautiful place in like the Pacific Northwest and she is so happy. And it's so beautiful and she wouldn't have really acknowledged that if she had just kept on her train and if I had come in and organized it for her, by her having to see what the clutter was made up of, she really got to see, wow, okay, I'm using my clutter for creativity and there's a part of me that's not being seen or addressed and she just revolutionized her whole life. And to me, the best after picture has nothing to do with your spaces. I don't care if your house is organized, if I'm honest. I care if you're living a life that brings you joy because if you love to cook, your kitchen is going to be a mess half the time. I don't need it to look like a home show. I need you to have a life that you love where things are where you need them, where they're supporting you, that you're not spending all your time managing your stuff that your stuff is supporting you in your creative endeavors and what you're creating in your life and who you truly are....
[Sarah S.]
And what I love about this approach is it works in different areas of life besides clutter and I I when you were talking, it was reminding me of other journeys, like maybe a health journey or something. It just it doesn't have to look a certain way.
[Star Hansen]
It could be. Yes. And it needs to be. And that's the thing. So if clutter is a friend, which I really think it is because again, it's an expression of who we are and our true our truth essentially. If clutter is a friend, it's only trying to help you. It's a symptom that you are outgrowing a version of yourself that doesn't work for you anymore, that you are just expanding beyond whatever has been. And that's exciting to think about. And if we can start to approach our clutter from that excitement and and look it isn't just physical clutter on this with any chaos, right? If you are having arguments with your spouse, that's an invitation for growth. If you are struggling with fitness or food, that's an invitation for growth. Why do we always bring it back to ourselves to think that it means something horrible about us and that we're defective? I think that's like a collective trauma that we as humans have experienced. Like where it really is, okay, great, if I am feeling sick every time I eat this food, maybe there's another food that my body is really excited about. So it's like, how do we again turn it into a yes instead of spending all of our time beating ourselves up because then we spend our time on a very unimportant activity. We instead of doing things we love and that bring us joy.
[Sarah S.]
So true. It's been wonderful talking with you, Star. Thank you so much for being on the show.
[Star Hansen]
Thank you, Sarah. It's been so wonderful chatting with you too.
[Sarah S.]
And I wanted to um give you an opportunity here to um let our listeners know where they can find you.
[Star Hansen]
I would love to gift your listeners a free copy of my book, Why the F am I still not organized? I love it. Thanks. They can get it from starhansen.com/podcast and that's s t a r h a n s e n.com/podcast and they can download a free copy of my book. They can take a quiz to find out what clutter monster is hiding in your closet, keeping you disorganized and they can learn more about my chaos to calm organizing community as well.
[Sarah S.]
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Star.
[Star Hansen]
Thank you.
